Christmas and Mohammad the Bear

2007 November 30
by Christian Beyer

There is a British woman, a school teacher, who just stood trial in the Sudan after being charged with “insulting Islam, inciting hatred and showing contempt for religious beliefs”. Her crime was that of permitting her students to give the classroom mascot, a Teddy Bear, the name of Mohammad. Mohammad is very common in the Sudan, with numerous boys in the class sharing this name.mohammed-the-xmas-bear.jpg

But apparently it is offensive to Muslims to name animals, even those that are stuffed with fluff, after the Great Prophet. It is considered sacrilegious and a violation of divine law and nothing demeaning should be associated with the name of the one that means so much to the Islamic people. This school teacher stood to receive 40 lashes and 12 months if convicted. She was found guilty and sentenced to 15 days in jail followed by deportation.

In the West we are aghast at the idea that religious zealotry could exact such brutal punishment for an infraction of such triviality. But is our astonishment really generated by the zealotry or is it more likely due to the extreme punishment?

Every year there is a holy war waged by certain elements of the Religious Right to get Christ back into Christmas. Or so they say. Today a long list was read over the radio by James Dobson naming all the retail stores that refer to the Holidays instead of the Christmas Season, suggesting a mass boycott. Almost daily, the American Family Association sends out blast e-mails identifying another merchant that has chosen to ignore the Christian roots of this holiday. We are exhorted to write the CEO’s of these corporations, threatening to withdraw our patronage if they don’t tow the line.

But it is a free country, even for businesses. By what evangelical imperative do we go about demanding merchants use the Greek version of Jesus’ title of Savior in their marketing schemes? Does Christmas, as this country has come to celebrate it, have anything at all to do with the Gospel? Spend spend spend -sell sell sell – buy buy buy – more, bigger and better. What does any of this have to do with Jesus? It’s these same stores that commercialized the Christmas holiday in the first place. Why are we now expecting to see Jesus’ retail stamp of approval on them?

The holiday traditions can be great fun – Bing Crosby and “White Christmas”, “It’s a Wonderful Life”, “A Christmas Story” with Darrin McGavin, eggnog, pine trees, candles, friends and family – these are all things to enjoy. But they have little to do specifically with Jesus, any more so than any good thing at any time of year does. Let’s be realistic – this has become a secular holiday for most of the country. Time to pick some better battles.

How does it look to non-Christians when they see us trying to bully people into respecting our traditions, especially when everyone knows that those traditions were purloined from the pagans? Of course there is no law that citizens must conform to specific Christmas traditions. But there have been (and still are) certain ‘blue laws’ on the books that have nothing other than Christian sensitivity as their goal. Whether Target, K-Mart, PetsMart, Lowes or the Gap label their most profitable season after Jesus seems sadly trivial when compared to the greater challenges now facing the nation and the church.

Kind of like making a federal case out of a Teddy Bear’s name.

70 Responses leave one →
  1. 2007 November 30

    Really good post, Christian. I had not really thought of it that way before, but your point is well made. Why expend so much energy trying put the name “Christ” back on something that has lost all connection with “Christ”? Rather, we probably should be expend our effort trying to “swim against the current” and actually do the kinds of things that Christ and his early followers seemed to do with regularity, not just at Christmas but all through the year.

  2. 2007 November 30

    Thanks for the reminder Christian. A pastor friend of mine recently pointed out, “It is easier to debate someone that it is to love them.” We would rather legislate love (prayer in school) or buy love (boycotting Jesus into existence) than actually give love. It is faster and easier–and on the surface things would appear the same, but I think we call that “whitewashing.”

    Rather than trying to control the culture with laws and boycotts, shouldn’t we be listening? Is the retail industry saying, “Mentioning Jesus cuts into our profits”? And if so, I would simply agree.

  3. 2007 November 30

    Yeah, Alan, we probably should consider jumping off of the “Christmas Express” . My wife and I are trying but it ain’t easy.

    And Ric makes a good point about Jesus and profitability. I wonder how happy he would be if his name was good for sales. He might side with the secular folks on this one.

  4. 2007 November 30

    Hmm… equal and opposite reaction….

    So the ‘evil one’ (aka James Dobson) is telling us to boycott PetSmart because they use the term Holiday instead of Christmas… that in your estimation is the same as the Mulsims flailing and imprisoning a teacher for misusing the name Mohammed… I see… so your suggestion is that we should respond by boycotting the celebration of our Messiah’s birth (the second greatest event since the creation of the universe, the first being celebrated in the Spring)… ok… hmm…

    I guess I am just blessed with not bearing the same baggage as all of you about Christmas. My fondest memories as a child/teenager/adult about Christmas involve the nativity, Christmas Eve Mass (with the incense and chior and the Priest with the splashy wand…), Linus reciting Luke on TV, Heavenly Hosts, Shepherds being sore afraid, that tear-jerker stop animation Little Drummer Boy with it’s message about Christ, O Come O Come Emmanuel…

    Sure the presents and time with family and all the Santa stuff was/is cool too, but (at least in my family) it all pointed back to Christ. Santa , the Tree, Candy Canes, everything had some related story that brought us back to the Baby Jesus. Even now with my kids, Christmas morning starts with freshly baked orange rolls (and Mamosas for Me and Mom) but before any gift is opened, before anything else happens, we put a candle on one of the orange rolls and sing happy birthday to Jesus and read the story of His birth.

    The truth lies in the swing… It doen’t have to be all or nothing. This post sounds a lot like your Thanksgiving post. The whole throw the baby out with the bathwater approach. Can’t wait till April to read your post on why we should do away with Easter…

  5. 2007 November 30

    Gosh, do you really think Dobson is the ‘evil one’? I thought everyone had decided it was George Bush. ;) Anyway, what he and folks like the AFA are trying is not to the same degree but it is sort of the same thing as what the Muslim leaders have in place: demanding respect for traditions and ideals through coercion.

    You describe a wonderful holiday season. (Mimosas on Christmas morning? What a coincidence. That’s what we do as well) It could be the setting for one of those classic Christmas movies. But, it doesn’t need to have any reference to Jesus or the Gospel to be enjoyable. In fact, it rarely seems to.

    I’m not busting Christmas – I love Christmas. I’m busting on this crazy politicizing of the holidays. It’s already commercialized – just leave the merchants alone and continue do what you have always done with family and friends. In one country people are chastised for using sacred names in inappropriate ways and in other one they are chastized for the opposite.

    It’s not all or notihing- for instance that sentimental synopsis of your holiday traditon didn’t mention Black Friday or licentious office parties. Tradition and sentiment and nostalgia are cool. But they can’t be forced.

  6. 2007 November 30

    Hey , I just thought about that Easter crack of yours. I seem to remember that you’ve had a bee in your bonnet for some time over that holiday. I even seem to remember someone telling their kids that they would like to go hunting for the Easter Bunny. :(

  7. 2007 November 30

    For us, everything about the holiday revolves around Christ. Even candy canes….we give gifts because of His gift to us etc…and I full well know that Christ was not born Dec. 25th. It has been made into a pegan, materialistic holiday by alot of people, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have a time to celbrate His birth and resurection. It starts in the home….and then spreads from there…this whole Happy Holiday crap and Family trees..like Tam wrote about is just another way of removing God from everything. Tha’s what I take a stand against. Like the utube I posted yesterday says…why don’t we do that for all Holidays then? Why do we not say Happy Holidays for Valantines Day? Only the ones with Christ in them seem to be “offensive”.

    It’s up to God’s people to keep Him “in”. When someone tells me I lose my job because I can’t say Merry Christmas…I find another job. Someday, we too may be beat for worshipping or saying Jesus Christ…or professing to be a Christian. Until then, He stays in everything for us. When that happens…we need to be prepared to die for Him as well….oh Merry Christmas…LOL Didn’t mean to get so glum…:)

  8. 2007 November 30

    No, you make some really good points here. Especially about companies who may be restricting their employee’s freedom of speech. But that’s another issue.

    But keep Hm ‘in’ what and where? In our churches, in our homes and in our lives, sure. I hate PC thought and speech as much as the next guy (see my offensive Teddy Bear above) but I don’t see how this issue with the merchant’s advertising and marketing is that important to me personally nor to the church as a whole. All these CEO’s can’t be atheist, Jewish and Hindu. A lot of them must be professing Christians. Is there a bigger problem hidden here?

    It’s silly to censor “Christmas” from the stores (or movies or TV) – it turns it into that elephant in the room that no one will talk about. But I can see this trend wearing itself out with some companies staying decidedly non-religious while others go the opposite way and target the Christian market. Of course certain people will insist that it was concerted activism that got these companies to change just as the AFA is taking dubious credit for Ford’s financial woes.

    Buddy mentioned equal and opposite reactions earlier – why don’t we ask ourselves why Christian associations have become so unappealing within the current culture?

  9. 2007 November 30

    And look- I’m not talking about the simple and gracious Christmas traditions that have been handed down through the generations. I’m talking about the crass commercialization of the holiday. And the fact that some Christian leaders seem to accept this commercialization as long as we give Christ the credit for the holiday.

    Again, I love the Christmas season, always have. The fact that the greens etc have their roots in pagan ritual is a wonderful example of how smart some of those early evangelists were. Using the comfortable and traditional customs of the ‘pagans’ to symbolize Christ probably encouraged more conversions than preaching alone could have.

    So, even having said what I have said, I will cheerfully lift a glass of egg nog to you. Right now I’m blowing the dust off of my Frank Sinatra Christmas Album.

  10. 2007 November 30

    I think Christian associations have become unappealing because this country is more concerned with making a buck than worshipping God. It’s up to the believer to keep Him in everything. I will no more allow someone to tell me I have to say Happy Holidays than I will have someone tell me I can’t say one nation under God when I say the Pledge of Allegience. Bull. They do it now…silence during that part…of course we yell it as loud as we can while the “silence” is happening….but that’s besides the point. The believer has a responsibility to God first. Alot of people like to talk big, but when it comes to being embarassed or uncomfortable for taking a stand for Christ it ends there. I think about end time prophecy Christian…where is the US? When I look at the big picture, it is important for me to keep Christ in…even if others demand to take Him out….I can’t comply with it. He is my authority…not the boneheads in congress that say it’s offensive to pray, have the Ten Commandments in public view….where does stop? Yes there is crass commercializm everywhere…it drives me nuts..but what are you doing to put Christ back in there publicly? That’s what we’re called to do. It’s gonna get a lot worse before it gets better…if we can’t stand now against the small things..how will we do when the big stuff hits?

  11. 2007 November 30

    Oh, and I’d share a nog with you anytime as well….:)

  12. 2007 November 30

    I gotta tell ya’, my secret recipe includes brandy, rum and bourbon in it. Word to the wise.

    I think those are all excellent points. I have to admit that recently I have felt uncomfortable with the ‘one nation under God’ line, not becuase of any problems I have with God’s authority but more so because I don’t know how true the words are. Has this country always been on God’s side? I don’t know, but it sometimes sounds like we are stamping ourselves with God’s seal of approval with that line. I say it because I believe in what it can mean. But I can understand and respect those who disagree.

    And putting Christ back into the public eye – are we really called to do that? I mean, that can result in so many different things. Left Behind video games, the Nativity Faberge’ Egg as seen on TV for just 6 payments of $50 each, tee-shirts telling people they are destined for hell (anybody want mine? XL).

    I think it is pretty sad the way so many have decided that God, Jesus and Christ are dirty words. But they are to be pitied and prayed for – they really can’t hurt me, not if I am in Christ. And I am pretty sure that we won’t encourage them towards ‘repentance’ by being aggressive. The more we push, the harder they will push back.

    I really doubt if that school teacher is considering a possible conversion to Islam anytime soon.

  13. 2007 November 30

    I won’t ever become a closet Christian. Yes I believe we are called to put Christ first. Deny Him before man, He denies you before the Father. This:”I mean, that can result in so many different things. Left Behind video games, the Nativity Faberge’ Egg as seen on TV for just 6 payments of $50 each, tee-shirts telling people they are destined for hell (anybody want mine? XL). ” is not what I’m talking about. This drives people away not to. But I want my kids to have the same option to pray before a football game as not. Anymore…there is no option.

    As for “one nation under God” I don’t think we’re there either but I know it’s where we need to be. Taking Him out of everything that represents our country ain’t cuttin’ it. I guess it comes down to, if people are going to snivel because God is in everything and their offended, then we should leave the option for people who are not offended as well…not remove Him completely. Why does “freedom of speech” mean cutting Him out completely…I don’t get it. So being the quiet subdued person I am, I’m rebelling a bit…. :)

    I think I might be able to survive one glass of the nog….bourbon??? sheesh..

  14. 2007 November 30
    ambrosia permalink

    Hmm. Merry Christmas.

    I’d like to try your Christmas Toddy.

    Chris, any depiction of Muhammed is blasphemy–so, if I were you, I would call Salmon Rushdie and find out where he was hiding, before the Iranians call a Fatwa for the depiction of Muhammad as a teddy bear dressed in a santa suit.

    Anyway, another fine story, story man. Maybe someday we’ll be reading and analyzing Christian Beyer right alongside Norman Mailer and Thomas Wolfe.

  15. 2007 November 30
    Gordon permalink

    Yes this country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs and they want to remove God from everything. They removed God from the class room put introduced Atheistic Evolution and that’s OK.
    It’s like ancient and Israel turning there backs on God… We just don’t seem to get how God really feels…. When ancient Israel wanted a King and they came to Samuel he was enraged because they wanted a King But God said don’t be angry it’s not you they are rejecting It’s ME (and after all God had done for them)….. If you can’t read the Hurt in that you don’t have a heart..
    Just Keep rejecting God and Jesus and see what happens….

  16. 2007 November 30

    Yeah! You go girl! And I defy anyone to drink just one glass.

    Freedom of speech means not being forced to cut Him out of anything. What we’re dealing with there is the federal government reaching into small community organizations and squashing people’s rights. They are ‘forcing’ people to conform to their version of civility. Big guys like Target, WalMart etc – if we don’t like them we don’t have to shop there (or work there). But I don’t think it’s a big enough deal to get worked up over.

    Let me give you an example that might be a bit of a stretch;

    In Howard County, Maryland, about 15 years ago, I put a glass wall in between my dining room and lounge. Each room had separate air handling systems. Now it was virtually impossible for my dining room customers to sense any tobacco smoke from my lounge. I extensively and successfully marketed this benefit to my prospective clientèle.

    I had a friend who opened up a smoke-free family restaurant (the only one in the state) and was quite successful with the health conscious diners in the area.

    Howard County then passed a law stating (in essence) that any establishment that permitted smoking must undergo expensive renovations of the sort that I had voluntarily done years ago. Many operators could not afford it and just went entirely smoke free. The rest now had separate smoke free dining rooms.

    I didn’t see too big of drop off in sales (they weren’t that big to begin with) but the bottom fell out of my friend’s smoke free restaurant business and he closed his doors.

    What’s my point? I would rather take heart in visiting those merchants who choose on their own to participate in the Christmas season than those who begrudgingly do so because of boycotts or lobbying. At least there is a chance that they might be sincere.

    The fact is that although everyone in Howard County said they were against second hand smoke, they weren’t voting for it with their pocket books. Going smokeless for most of the operators was not seen as ‘good for business’. Just as these merchants who go for Family Trees (how dumb is that – never seen one myself) must think (as Ric said) Jesus is bad for business. If they thought more people wanted it they would be all over the word Christmas. (Heck, if they thought they could make money off of it they would celebrate Attila the Hun’s birthday – with gusto.)

    So why do they think Happy Holidays means more money in the bank than Merry Christmas?

  17. 2007 November 30

    Bruce, I told you already. I can’t spare any cash right now. BTW – when are we going to have a photo in your ‘avatar’? You’re so damn handsome.

    Gordon – you are so right. But…how do we convince them that they are wrong?

  18. 2007 November 30

    but it is sort of the same thing as what the Muslim leaders have in place: demanding respect for traditions and ideals through coercion.

    Here is where I think I see it differently…

    I don’t agree with the tactics that many “right wing” conservatives use. I have never agreed with the practice of voting AGAINST something to vote FOR something. This doesn’t make sense to me.

    Anyway, my issue is not with what a company says or doesn’t say about the holidays, it is with a company(or government or people) that tell me what I can or cannot say about the holidays. This is what Political correctness is all about. Many of these companies don’t want Christmas to be talked about in their marketing. Fine, but to tell an employee they can’t say it or talk about it, is wrong.

    PC is crap! If we want true freedom to say what we want or believe what we want…then let us have it. PC is taking it away.

    We are headed down a road that leads to a protection AGAINST religious opinions or speech…not down a road to protect it. Pretty soon, we will have people put in jail for NOT naming their bear Mohammad…

  19. 2007 November 30
    ambrosia permalink

    This just in:

    The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Christian Beyer, ”I would have hoped that it’d be the real thing–Muhammad is no teddy bear!”

  20. 2007 November 30
    Gordon permalink

    I guess my concern is when the atheist and agnostics are done removing God from everything they deem Public what’s next….

  21. 2007 November 30

    Whoa, Brent. Hold on their Bobalooey! You’re preachin’ to the choir here. First off, I never was addressing ‘thought’ control tactics, either by big business or big government ( I am a fan of Orwell’s). I am only talking about using Christ to market goods. That’s all. I don’t think Macey’s or Gimbles (weren’t they Jewish?) were any more interested in the birth of our savior then than Target is now. It’s all about $$$$$$. Right or wrong I think the radical Muslims would not approve of a day in which Allah (or Mohammad) was used to help sell diamond jewelry.

    So- (unless you disagree with my assessment of the profit driven mentality)- why would they hurt themselves by removing Christ from Christmas? They wouldn’t – so the current market must consider Jesus a liability. Or, perhaps the Christians in the board room feel guilty about linking his name with rampant commercialism ( I know, I know, just kidding).

    This isn’t about PC – it’s about business tactics and why recently the bigger (so smarter?) business don’t consider the (non Judeo)’ Christian’ market as important as it once was.

  22. 2007 November 30

    Ambruce, you can be amusing. Scary as well. But that’s not Mohammed – that’s supposed to be Jesus! (Think they’ll buy that?)

    Gordon, I would agree, that is a very sound concern. But again, what do we do to convince them that they are wrong? Force against force? Or should we be more ’subversive’?

  23. 2007 November 30

    Perhaps instead we should be demanding that the word Christmas be removed from these stores.

    Just a thought. Just thinking. Not really serious.

  24. 2007 November 30

    I got you. I did read it a little different…but we are on the same page here.

    But, your last statement…

    “This isn’t about PC – it’s about business tactics and why recently the bigger (ergo more successful) business don’t consider the ‘Christian’ (Judeo ain’t got nothin’ to do with it) market as important as it once was.”

    Is it that simple? They just don’t think it sells? I think the word Christmas would sell anything. It seems to right now. I don’t think that people shop at a store that only uses “holidays” because they don’t use “Christmas”. The season is what sells, not the word. using Christmas or holidays is preference, not marketing…

    I know this is my opinion, but I actually majored in marketing(and now I’m a Pastor…go figure). The word Christmas sells and sells big! If a company doesn’t want to use it, it’s because they are offended or afraid of offending someone with that word.

    Of course that takes me down the road of a whole bucnh of “market driven country” fears…

  25. 2007 November 30

    Let me clarify one thing. I don’t think “Christmas” sells because it has anything to do with “Christians”. I do think marketers care about eh Christian community and will “play up” Christmas to do this. But, I think the name “Christmas” sells, cause that is the name of the holiday…

  26. 2007 November 30

    Hey, I think you and I are really saying similar things here. I think “Christmas” would sell to, but maybe they are trying to expand their client base to include non-Christians. If so then it would make sense to homogenize the holiday.

    Do you really think that a company would deign to use a campaign that might be construed as offensive if they thought it would sell their product? If so, you don’t watch enough TV or read many tabloids. ;)

    I know I sound cynical but think about it- if either one of us are right these companies are choosing to eliminate Christ from their marketing campaigns for one of two reasons; money or fear. But what can they be afraid of? I’ll tell you what they are deathly afraid of – losing any business at all in December. It’s make or break time. I just think they figured out that Jesus is just not much on the minds of all those shoppers fighting for parking spaces or struggling over the last IPod accessory on the shelf. It doesn’t matter what greeting is written on the store window -”Sell it and they (Christians) will come”.

  27. 2007 November 30

    Ya we are on the same page.

    Here s a question though, what does Jesus have to do with the word Christmas…when it comes to marketing? Christmas is just a holiday. And dare I say the crowning holiday for marketing.

    Why would someone fear the name of a holiday? Still seems to me that using the word Christmas is a pretty powerful money maker.

  28. 2007 November 30

    Well if you have collectively already captured the Christian market for this holiday ( we are going to go shopping, no matter what) then how do you increase your business? Expand your market to include non-Christians and you help accomplish that by sanitizing the religiousness out of it. Heck I’ve known people that have had Hanukkah trees years ago, exchanging ‘winter’ gifts and all that. And now we have a tremendous influx of Muslims and Hindus into the country with a fair amount of income at their disposal. So let’s make Christmas a ‘universal’ holiday – let’s get everyone to buy gifts!

  29. 2007 November 30

    NOT that there is anything wrong with wanting to increase business or profits. But is there something wrong with using Jesus’ name to do so? Doesn’t it have a certain tantrum in the temple kind of feel to it?

  30. 2007 November 30

    I here you. I see where, if marketers have already captured a market, that they don’t feel the need to give it notice. But, being a part of marketing, they do focus on other ares that have not been “captured”, but they never turn there focus from a market they’ve “captured”. that a little “biting the hand the feeds you”.

    I still contend that if “Christmas” is taken out of the advertising it is by preference/protest and to purposefully distance itself from the religion. Not for the dollar. But, I have a hard time believing a Wal Mart or a Target would want to distance itself from the customer(Christians). In general, you seek to add appeal in marketing not take it away.

    Heck we’ve provided them the holiday to begin with :)

  31. 2007 November 30

    To your last comment. I absolutely disagree with the use of Christmas solely for attracting Christians for the purpose of making a dollar.

  32. 2007 November 30

    You know, if I went back into retail, I might very well not use Christmas point of sale materials in my marketing. Or my advertising. Because in all honesty I would be trying to capture every penny I could in December. I think that I might detect something of a bad taste in my mouth, peddling my wares to assist people in the ‘celebration’ of my savior’s birth. Santa never visited Jesus manger, did he?

    (of course I would also be happy to capture some of that non-Christian market as well)

  33. 2007 November 30

    I think as a Christian business owner, you have to consciously make an effort to decide how, if at all “Christ” is a part of your advertising.

    But what about “Christmas”? Is it just “Holidays” at that point. Do we(or God for that matter) own the “Christmas” name? Isn’t Christmas a holiday that Christians and the church have claimed for themselves? Is there room for both Santa and Christ? I think there is. If you don’t use “Christmas” and instead use “Holidays”, do you think Christians would be offended? I personally think this is not a bad thing. I think you’ve eluded to this.

    Christmas is for Christ…The holidays are for shopping and Santa…

    I’ll be celebrating the Savior’s birth this season. but I am also going to enjoy all the festivities and family events that go along with this season.

  34. 2007 November 30

    You just summed it up – “Christmas is for Christ…The holidays are for shopping and Santa…”

    I will be celebrating along with you my friend. But I will NOT be seen in the vicinity of Best Buy, CompUSA, Macy’s, Bloomingdales or any indoor shopping mall. (Famous last words, right?)

  35. 2007 November 30

    You won’t find me at Best Buy either…I like Circuit City better ;)

  36. 2007 November 30

    By the way, I have to go to the mall tonight. BUT not for Christmas…err… I mean, Holiday shopping. My daughter and I have a date to Starbucks :)

  37. 2007 November 30

    Cool. How old is your daughter? I just spent the last 20 minutes laughing with my girl Dot. She’s 19. We were reminiscing about all the ’stupid’ things we’ve both done.

    “Thank heaven, for little girls…..”

  38. 2007 November 30

    She’s 13.

  39. 2007 November 30
    ambrosia permalink

    Here’s a thought–maybe Christ took the Christ out of Christmas. Think about it. Remember Jesus casting the money changers out of the temple? Merchants using God to profit? Hmm. What could be more offensive to Jesus, as the Bible describes Him, then Wal-Mart profiting on his name and the sacred events of His life, by selling inflatable elves and bunny rabbits.

    Rhetorically,

    That’s Bruce speaking

  40. 2007 November 30
    ambrosia permalink

    How nice Chris, confessing all of your mistakes Hmm. That’s like 48 years X 365 days a year X 1000 mistakes day? All in 20 minutes. Wow.

    BTW, if the bear is Jesus, why does he have a Quran?

    Double BTW, I mean toy bunnies, as well. On the other hand, maybe the collective unconscious of man acknowledges Christ in a twisted way by celebrating his birthday by buying Big Screen TVs and Microwave ovens (Wow honey, a Microwave? Just the kind of romantic gift I wanted).

    Triple BTW, what is an ‘avatar?

    Logiopath

  41. 2007 November 30
    ambrosia permalink

    You won’t be in the vicinity of Best Buy or Macy’s? Hmm. Taking a while off from YIT? Which the last time I saw it was practically in the shadow of Best Buy and Security Square Mall
    –or are you so focused driving by those places everyday you have stopped noticing them, and BTW, don’t you pass Circuit City also, as you cruise down Route 40?

    Ambrulogio

  42. 2007 November 30

    I didn’t say mistakes- just ‘dumb’ things. Most were deliberate.

    The Quran? Uh, ah….because he’s, ah..dammit!

    Buddy is out to get the Easter Bunny- just wait and see. It’ll all be on court TV.

    Avatar: you know like how Krishna is the eight avatar of Vishnu? No? Or how about those little pictures that pop up with our comments? Yeah, that’s it. The little picture. You owe it to your fans.

  43. 2007 November 30

    Yeah, I drive by ‘em but I don’t go in ‘em. (Unless I need to buy something).

    Ambuglio? M P D? Multiple personality disorder? That explains a lot.

  44. 2007 December 1
    ambrosia permalink

    What have you been drinking?

    M P D? That’s the owner of the church in Mayberry, he’s the self-appointed mayor, the sexton of the church, probably chief of the Mayberry Police Department, chief cook and bottle washer.

    I believe one of my coworkers and one of the mgmt have multi-personalities (really–talking to the co worker is like watching Three Faces of Eve).

    My fans? You mean a picture on line? How about Jaba the Hut with an auburn colored afro? No, wait, how bout a bear in a football helmet, no wait, how about a stand-up comic wearing a cap and gown posed like Rodin’s Thinker?
    No wait, how bout me in an Erasmus hat and fur cape get up like Erasmus or Thomas More. No wait, how about a short cook with a gray beard, working with insane teenagers?

    No wait, how about Render and Rab driving eachother crazy in the library–Aach! Barbara, the books can’t go there! They have to go there, two inches to the left! That’s not a biography, that’s history!

    B. David Furflufeter

  45. 2007 December 1

    Gray? Really?

  46. 2007 December 1
    ambrosia permalink

    I cannot reveal what I look like–the bio-police have placed a small camera inside my head, and public revealing of my face may cause the people down at the NSA to become very nervous.

    Not really.

    I like the semi-anonymity. Sort of like at a Halloween party I once went to, and was able to talk to a female who was wearing a clown face. I wouldn’t know her from Eve at school, so she could talk openly to me all night without me recognizing her at school the next week.

    I can write and just be my crazy real-self, but if any of you, except CB knew what I looked like, it would ruin half of the fun.

    Tell you what, I’ll email a logo from one of the many colleges I attended, and you can use that, ‘Kay?

  47. 2007 December 1
    ambrosia permalink

    Have we no lives, that we communicate through this website at 12:15 AM? No Jousting tonight?

  48. 2007 December 1
    ambrosia permalink

    Check you rev22 email for my college’s logo. That will suffice sufficiently for now.

  49. 2007 December 1
    ambrosia permalink

    One mo thing–to be perfectly honest, the bear looks more like
    Ron Howard–Richie Cunningham–Opie with a beard, than Jesus or Muhammed.

  50. 2007 December 1

    I thought that was a picture of Ambrosia :)

  51. 2007 December 1

    Hey guys, Brent (inWorship) has done a marvelous job of putting this whole thing into perspective over on his site ; the piece is called “Christmiss”. He has been able to accomplish something that I seem to have trouble with; getting his point across without ruffling too many feathers. Check it out.

    I think that I didn’t convey my point very well in trying to evoke a comparison between what the Mulsim leaders in Sudan are doing as opposed to what some Christians were trying to do; In the Sudan they are outraged to hear of a trivial diversion bearing Mohammad’s name. In America we are insisting upon Jesus’ name being associated with every ‘trivial’ thing having to do with the season.

    I don’t think any Muslim would be too happy about “Prophet Trees” or “Prophet Raffles” or “Prophet Ornaments” any more then they were crazy about the teddy bear named Mohammad. I’m not suggesting that this is a desirable, or even reasonable course for us. But it is something to keep in mind as we go about the season. I think Brent has come up with “both and” solution that is much more reasonable than the “either or” answers that we (myself included) have been suggesting.

    Bravo! (again)

  52. 2007 December 1

    Christian – Your point was conveyed very well. It allowed me to be sharpened and made me think. It worked! Thanks for the help.

  53. 2007 December 2

    Let me just check i have this ’straight’ (i OFTEN get a little ‘confused’ over some things…)

    There is a BIG discussion happening currently about the right of some to make the rules for everyone? Or is it just what is seen as ‘Destruction of’ or ‘Total Disrespect For’ centuries ( or decades in some instances) of ‘Tradition’ Specifically Christ-mas and The Prophet Muhammad?

    Do i further have it correct that we seem to consider it a Sacrament that we honour the Day of Birth of a Human on Dec 25th (or those of Christian ‘decent’ do while all other nationalities/religions who celebrate Kwanzaaa or the Festival of Lights can basically like it or lump it?? No-one asked them to live here? Right?)

    So when exactly do we celebrate God’s Day since we are all such great fans of the Almighty who created everything and to whom ALL Honour is due???

    Like i said – i can tend to be confused over some things some times.

    I am pretty sure JC would be pissed at people making a buck through misrepresenting Him or dishonouring His Father by making His Son’s Name into an excuse to sell more toys, and ‘devaluing’ the many many temples raised in His Name. In Worship seems to have got that part down pretty well, i think.

    love

  54. 2007 December 2

    Thanks, Love. I thought that was my point as well. :(

  55. 2007 December 2

    Just trying to make sure i am on the right track ;-)

    love

  56. 2007 December 2

    and just where did you make the point about God Day exactly??
    :D

    love

  57. 2007 December 3

    Love are you saying that we should accept and celebrate all gods regardless? Just curious..

  58. 2007 December 3

    ‘we should’?? ‘all Gods’???

    There is only ONE God GG – there are over 6 billion of ‘us’

    One ’size’ does not fit ALL -that is the way He made us – ‘different’. – it is THAT ‘we’ need to respect above all in ‘us’.

    We see God the way He makes us see Him – to denigrate any other belief out of some kind of mistaken zeal for Truth, that ‘our’ way is the only ‘right’ way to Him is of Satan and ego – it is NOT of Him who Created ALL that IS.

    We find God however He calls us to him best – we ALL struggle daily with our own ego who seeks to replace Him as ruler over all in our own self.

    Jesus the man is a perfect example for mankind to follow – he was not the first or the last example on this earth although all are ‘One’ with Him and The First and The Last Lived through and in Him as he walked here with His Disciples.

    So Dec 25 is the Day Christians celebrate Jesus’ Birth and Good Friday His Death and Easter Sunday His Rise.

    Remind me which day we celebrate God – Jesus’ Father – again as a special day of rememberance – and where in Scripture does it declare Dec 25 as His (J.C.s) Birthday?? or did we just make it up? If we (man) made it up, when exactly, and why?

    Should we rename Saturday Godday? Since it is His Sabbath after all.

    Do we celbrate Him 52 days a year and Twice on Christmas Sunday/Easter Sunday?

    What was that about The Sabbath being made for the Son of Man again?

    “Christmas is special because…” everyone feel free to fill in the blanks according to their individual wisdom.

    Every day is a day to celebrate God and His Son for me.

    Curiosity possibly killed some cats. Maybe Tam should name her car ‘Curiosity’? :-)

    love

  59. 2007 December 3

    You’re putting Muhhamad in the same catagory as JC is what brought on my question. Jesus does fit all, He says so. Either we live by His word or we don’t. I don’t have mistaken zeal for the truth because I am taking Him at His word. And now my believing in His written Word is from Satan???? Geez Love, how did this get so far off? Maybe we should hold this to one blog, I’m getting dizzy LOL :) Yes we see God the way He makes us see Him…but all gods are not Him. Jesus was fully man and fully God. There is no other since or before who has so perfectly been….It doesn’t matter what day people choose to celebrate Christ’s birth or death to me…I celebrate Him every day in my life….B explained that one very well on his blog.

  60. 2007 December 3

    Not that point,, Love. This one;

    “I am pretty sure JC would be pissed at people making a buck through misrepresenting Him or dishonouring His Father by making His Son’s Name into an excuse to sell more toys…”

    As far as Christmas devaluing other celebrations go, I am no too sure about that. I know plenty of folks who celebrate Christmas and Kwanza. One’s a religious holiday, the other is cultural. Hints at the point Brent was making.

  61. 2007 December 3

    Well I’m sure I’m not gonna say anything different that anyone else has already said here.

    Quite a thought provoking post Christian! I just commented on Darlas blog that I really could care less anymore what words they refuse and replace. (ok, maybe I care a little!) but the fact is…THEY cannot take away my ability or right to honor Him. Period! WHENEVER I want. Go ahead, take Christ out of Christmas. Was He really in it in the first place? The more important question that this has raised for me is, “Is Christ in my every day?” It’s not up to Target or Lowe’s to keep God in the headlines. They’re a business! They’re in it for the profit!

    Now the PC thang? Down right pisses me off! I asked yesterday when will “they” get offended and file a lawsuit against the city for all the electric poles that are in the shape of a Cross? It is truly that bad around here. That is what sends me into the little white bouncy room with a Prozac drip!

  62. 2007 December 3

    Don’t you see that they are just trying to upset you? Ignore them and they will get bored and leave you alone.

    You just reminded me of the old International Tuberculosis Congresses logo, the Cross of Lorraine:

    http://www.ha.org.hk/org/antitb/images/logo1.gif

    That always looked like a electric pole to me.

  63. 2007 December 4

    Chris? ‘Don’t you see thay they ( i assume you mean the ‘pc’ ‘crowd’??) are just TRYING to upset you????’

    Surely that is a teeny tad myopic? Do you Truly believe that that is what ‘those’ who are pc are ALL about?

    Do you deny that WHO is doing the upsetting is solely and wholly IN US? Our Self – our false beliefs – our ego?? Come on dude – lets keep a little balance in our ‘perspective’ going, shall we?? :-)

    I can get as mad at ’stupid’ pc dictators as the rest of us but at least i can see that it is not just the pc’ers who have got something so very badly wrong – it is frequently the monkey-man who stares back from my mirror who is the worst culprit.

    First cats then pc’ers (or was it the tother way ’round??) are you having a bad day like me or what? ;-)

    Lorraine reminds me of the one with an extra crosbar on the top three limbs.. anyone know the name for that and what it origianlly symbolised?

    love

  64. 2007 December 4

    Hey Love – The problem for me is that the PC’ers tend to get their way. Even if we are civil and patient it is still completely frustrating the the voice of a few tends to determine the freedoms of the many…

  65. 2007 December 4

    Frustrating! – Ever it was thus. PC is only a very recent and comparitively minor continuation of long held injustices of the few over the many. Personally, i think many pc’ers are actually doing what they can to put things ‘righter’ by recognising that there exist some in our multicultural and integrated or semi-integrated modern societies who deserve not to be oppressed into following the way of the masses since the masses are mostly mindless sheep anyways but still…

    Did I mention people think me a little crazy at times? woo-hooo :P

    love

  66. 2007 December 4

    Love, must I always resort to using ’smilies’? You missed my joke? I was teasing Tam. Although I try my best to not offend or to use words that might place me in a stereotypical perspective – I cringe whenever I hear a someone correct another for not being politically correct. It’s like a citizens thought-arrest.

  67. 2007 December 4

    See, there is such a thing as polite conversation. If one holds to this form then there is little danger of being politically incorrect. Got that, you dinkum drongo?

  68. 2007 December 7

    must you always resort to using smilies – only until EVERYONE undesrstands you were making a joke without one! ;-)

    ( is easier with a smiley – wonder if jason remembers smilier-guy – where did HE go??)

    and your ‘Aussie’ is appreciated if not altogether ‘convincing’ – Mate!

    Dinkum is similar in meaning to ‘True Blue’ or ‘ridgey-didge’

    ‘For real’ as some in the US might describe it.

    A drongo is one who makes little sense – a dill, or a drop-kick. i think there was a compliment, albeit back-handed somewhat, in there somewheres and i thank you for it as a brother in Spirit.

    Aussies can poke fun at another while reviling anyone who tries it from ‘outside’.

    We accept anyone who is ‘real’ ( we hate phonies) and open and honest with us.

    in the interests of continued American-Aussie understandings :-)

    love

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